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DavoteK

Pro Evo Network Masterclass - Volume 1

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Amazing, amazing stuff @jazfiction

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Frillypink read @jazfiction :up:

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Frillypink work @jazfiction

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Beautiful article :) 

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That's brilliant mate @jazfiction

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Tactics!? Bah!!!!

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Great stuff, @jazfiction

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Frillypink one @jazfiction

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Really Frillypinkly put together, and love the ideas. Slick video too, @jazfiction
– I thought I'd add a couple of comments, since I'm interested more generally in how well (or often, poorly) PES captures real-life playing structures.

I think this is actually a case where you're able to get a principle to work, but you have adapted it to deal with PES's poor realism. You said "In my experience the longer the distance the more effective this pass is." I agree, but also, that's part of the problem. It's far too easy to do, and is the reason in online play people spam long balls down the middle.

Screenshot_20200607-170213.jpg

Screenshot_20200607-170336.jpg

As you clearly show there, the space is huge. You look at real-life football matches in, say, the EPL, and from a view in the stands you see that normally both backlines have pushed right up, so there's a contested zone in a small moving section around the middle of the pitch, until play breaks outside of it.

That extra compression in real life adds both risk and reward elements, but the risk is much higher (possession turnover, subject to a break) than in PES, where you're much more likely to keep possession from the pass, and where if you concede it, you can cope with a break because the line is deep or can track back.

Another thing you said was this: "If you are finding that ‘Through’ part isn’t happening, it is because you didn’t create the space for the target player."

That's true, but again it's also a case of PES's weird, overlapping, contradictory tactical systems. E.g. you said you didn't cover positions, roles, advanced tactics etc., because you can normally pull off the move anyway, but I think those factors are usually crucial as to whether players make the right runs: a magical formula hard to distinguish, that takes into account player role, position type, ordinary stats (e.g. offensive positioning), new stats (inspire is a massive change in AI behaviour), and advanced instruction.

So yeah, loved this video/article and think it's a great explanation of how a real-life tactical principle has application in PES. I think that in addition you can use the same footage you presented to show why it's almost too applicable to PES at times, why the risk-reward ratio is botched, and how if it doesn't come off that can be due to PES's overly complicated, messy tactical systems!

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@Janguv Yeah Konami know about that gap, and there ease of playing up to the sStikers feet, they even mentioned it in an update, didn’t solve it though.

I’ve said to my mates a few times, if they had a ‘Screen’ the back four advanced tactic for DMF everyone would use it, because of that hole.

The principle still stands though, and No DMF would be permanently covering that space for the entire game, you just should have to work a bit harder to earn that gap.

 

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Yeah @jazfiction they said this year that with the new camera angle they realised they had to bring the back line up (which, wtf! why did it take a new camera angle for them to notice that?!), but like you say, they've still failed to really sort it out.

I wonder at this point if it's because the game is so fundamentally unbalanced, that if they actually did it, all sorts of other problems would occur (constant rugby tackles, first touch problems exacerbated, PA lofted through ball spam, etc etc)

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1 minute ago, Janguv said:

Yeah @jazfiction they said this year that with the new camera angle they realised they had to bring the back line up (which, wtf! why did it take a new camera angle for them to notice that?!), but like you say, they've still failed to really sort it out.

I wonder at this point if it's because the game is so fundamentally unbalanced, that if they actually did it, all sorts of other problems would occur (constant rugby tackles, first touch problems exacerbated, PA lofted through ball spam, etc etc)

Probably and with heavy touches, as the space gets smaller they would have to adjust those.... I still thing they should do it though. No many IRL defences drop off as deep as PES teams do.

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Great read - and I enjoyed the video too. Big fan of implementing 'philosophies' to make the game more 'sim' if that's even possible. Bringing real footballing concepts into the game is something I really try to do but often fail because 1) of the AI and 2) my skill level :lol:

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42 minutes ago, Epone said:

Great read - and I enjoyed the video too. Big fan of implementing 'philosophies' to make the game more 'sim' if that's even possible. Bringing real footballing concepts into the game is something I really try to do but often fail because 1) of the AI and 2) my skill level :lol:

Same here... mostly because of 2 though :lol:

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55 minutes ago, jazfiction said:

Same here... mostly because of 2 though :lol:

Same but I'll also add: 3) my poor ability to read the game tactically in real life as well, very often lol.

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Thank u, the article is reall good, thank you for the tip n deep explanation regarding how to play better 😬🤘❤️

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Very good article @jazfiction

"Up back through", would be another name for the passing element of Vertical Tiki Taka I believe? For anyone who has played Football Manager. Also something Maurizio Sardi's teams use a lot, especially his old Napoli side.

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48 minutes ago, MB 11 said:

Very good article @jazfiction

"Up back through", would be another name for the passing element of Vertical Tiki Taka I believe? For anyone who has played Football Manager. Also something Maurizio Sardi's teams use a lot, especially his old Napoli side.

Yes and he did it very well there. That was really a great team to watch.
 

It’s been around even longer than that all the way back to Cruyff at Barca. As it is one of the fundamentals of the Rondo drill. 
 

I’m going to do a few more of these if there is anything anyone would like to see, whether it comes from real life or come from football manager concepts (based on teal life) . I’m open to suggestions. 
 


 

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great post mate, really interesting and will see how I can bring it into my game

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Wauw this is vid awesome.

Great work and information shared.

I will try this one too.

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Great stuff @jazfiction Would love to see highlights in league matches. Sort of like the GOTM, seeing it implemented and the different variations different players use. Thank you for putting this together.

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